Hell, I was happy with the first (red) one til you guys started talking!

Joking. I WANT you to talk.

"Critical about yourself and your work" I've been hearing my entire artistic life.

The Tommy gun just made it cooler.

okay go back read what I typed, I was the one who said don't change the red one...

etc so on...

If you really want my advise...look at what I am typing and ask when you don't understand cause that is how you improve yourself.
no advise I can give you will make you better, without you understanding what walls you put up for yourself first.

sounds stupid and all zen...but I have helped allot of people get better at what they do...

serious all kidding aside...

true but the client said no...so bye bye...

Well, we'll blame Paulo, then.

Hommie gave you good advise...
I told you what I thought you needed to hear to get better...
same difference really...

it really is up to you tho.

Dude, I l already said I don't ask for advice unless I want it. I've said this over and over again in different ways over the years. I also thanked Paulo for the advice and said it made the piece better in the Gerry.

I'm just joking.

this is the first thread I have partaken in about your artwork...

so I don't know what came before me..sorry

can you handle my advise is all...

donno...

I've made a few corrections so far you have ignored them.

what would you like me to say...

I could say good luck...

then we would be done

or

lets start over...

advice is not what you need...

anyone can tell you hey this looks good or this looks better etc and so on.

artwork, all art for that matter is in the eye of the beholder,

gigs are about getting a job(s) or gettin' paid

3 questions.

1- how long have you been drawing?

2- don't know for sure, but is this your profession?

3- do you want to do drawing for a living? or if it is do you want to get better at it?

depending on the answers I can say more without...
hmmm...let me word this as politely as possible...
without hurting your pride...
cause I fired guys with allot of talent, who had to much pride for there own good.

again straight up seriously no BS.

all of the above might sound lofty..
but I have been doing some kind of artwork since I was 13, so I got 37 years worth of knowledge... professionally since I was 16, so 34 years if you want to count it career wise.

more over I'm just a kid from da bronx....

donno...

the ball is in your court...

Well, lessee, since you insist.

1. I ask for critiques because I want feedback. Sometimes I follow the suggestions; sometime I don't. But I always want the feedback because I need to try and see it as others do. Or to have others point out something I'm not seeing. To say I ignored yours is incorrect (without going all the way back thru this): I took your point about the moon being too far over, agreed, and moved it back. I took your advice on "simpler is better" and applied it to the cityscape. I also, while not taking your advice to lose the belt, DID move the circle away so that it was not all converging in the same spot. I like the belt. I wanted the belt to remain so that we know he's in a trench coat not a cape. But I did acknowledge by my actions that you had a point. Maybe you didn't notice. To call your advice "corrections" and then to say it is all subjective seems contradictory. I'm sure anyone who follows these threads can tell you I take advice fine. The freakin' ripples or no ripples in one design comes to mind. So, I ask for critique and I take the advice. Or not. I don't think I'm under any obligation to take every piece of advice I get. Sometimes I agree; sometimes I don't. And sometimes if I don't, I explain WHY I don't. I doubt this attitude raises much concern among the advisors.

2. I'm almost 60 so I have been doing this some little time. Such as it is, it's my profession. I will say that only in the last 10 years have I been drawing comics or comic characters and I don't claim any great expertise in this area. But who would say they don't want to be better at something? And I've been at this so long and I think I have a good, self-aware grasp on my abilities that I doubt you could wound my pride. Seriously.

If you want to critique my stuff, you should. If you think I should then follow all of it exactly afterwards, well, I can't promise that. And if that's a problem I can't help you. Feel free to say whatever you like, of course. Or not.

Also, be aware, this is more than I even want to say on the subject.

two things about me

1-I don't play...

and

2-do you want to be treated as a professional or is this a hobble you decide that one.

as for the rest....

I called them corrections cause if I was payin (of course I am not) terminology changes.
Friends can advise/critique all day long, that don't really help you become a better artist.
yeah it does help with input etc,
but end of the day if you can't produce what a client wants or needs you don't get paid.
I would like to treat you like a professional, they'd be corrections not suggestions or advise etc.
there is no contradiction in anything I say, lets not play word games.
I could care less how old you are it's either a goal or not never to old to learn.
I been lookin at your comic stuff without real(actual) sized images I can't really tell but that looks okay to me.
I could care less if you follow my advise or not, no contest, not interested in one.

gotta say tho I do notice you rebuff everyone not just me...so there is that.
how do you say to a client I don't want to do what your paying me for.
I have heard I can't do that in that case okay we will get someone that can.

again I might be just over thinkin this, but you asked so there it is.

also I don't need your help my advise here is free...take it or leave it that's on you.

think I made my point about not wanting to hear whats wrong, only whats right,
yep hurt pride saw that one comin.

or

I could simply say nice job..and move on

aftermath:

truth maybe hard but it's truth...well from my experience anyway.

oh yeah just so you know
this is not the first time I have said almost the exact same thing to an artist..
one was my last clients daughter flat out said this is unprofessional and below standard won't work.
she took it hard dad said it's okay can you(me) get someone else.
no one ever takes it well...
hard truth is not so nice...sorry

I myself learned if I wanted to continue my career had to adapt to the talent around me,
there are a whole lot of folks who can draw better than I do,
so I pay them most of the time...
or someone else pays them depending on the job.

I'm not here for.... a how should I put this a "match"
you go right ahead and win...

laterz have a good one.

This is really one of the more surreal conversations I've ever had at IMWAN and that's saying something.

I AM a professional. I've been satisfying clients since 1978 if you must know. I always give people what they ask for and if they want something changed, it's changed. It meets their demands or no one pays for anything. And I always meet deadlines, too. You asked me how long I'd been drawing; that's why I gave my age, fer cryin' out loud. But how you or anyone else treats me has nothing to do with whether I'm a professional or not. Your use of the word "correction" implies that there's something incorrect. Even you admit that this would apply if you were paying me. But you're not. Therefore, what you have are suggestions, which I can take or not. It's very presumptuous, condescending and frankly weird in that this has nothing to do with this situation, in your lecturing me on relationships with clients. I am not a novice. And you are not a client. I neither need nor want advice in this area.

You also seem to have an inflated opinion about your opinions. I can assure you there was no hurt pride on my part about anything. It's enough to make me suspect you're having me on. The idea that anything you have said hurts my pride is ludicrous. I took some of your advice, decided I didn't like the rest and didn't take it, simple as that. There was nothing, as far as I was concerned, to be injured about. On the contrary, it seems that you were the one that was put out that I didn't immediately implement your wisdom. Whatever you "saw comin'" was strictly in your imagination. And I don't rebuff "everyone". I didn't even rebuff you. If anyone (and some people here I've actually done work for) can come in here and say they understand what you're talking about regarding me personally I will be greatly surprised.

But I'm done with this now. In the future, if you want to comment on the work, do so. I ask for that. But that's all I ask for.

OK, finally, it's up.

http://community.welovefine.com/m/contests/design/40787

Ya know, they say something about "rating" but I see nothing on the page or anyone's page about ratings so I dunno. But you can go by and leave a comment. As I said before, if they want you to have to jump thru hoops, don't bother.

It's outta my hands now.

If every spot is won by Spider-Gwen and/or Silk I will not be surprised. Too many of them are nice. And that demographic is a big target right now. The market for Silk in Asia would be yuge.

And yeah, I didn't know who Silk was, either.

Ah, ratings may happen AFTER the contest is closed.

Well, the good feelings couldn't last.



So, from this I guess it was the Tommy gun itself that was the problem and not because it was a gun, per se.

So, I could have kept the original pose and just given him a .45 instead? Sunuvabitch.

"... gun would need to be removed...", she said.

I only had one and it wasn't pointed toward the audience.

Hah. There's another one where he's pointing two guns right at the camera.

I have to give them credit for communication. She's already written back and says, she dunno why those made it. But she'll look into it. I told her if it was convenient, do so, but I don't wanna rock any boats.

I'm always rooting for your success, Rick.
But I keep seeing these threads and expecting boobage.

Heh, we used to have a thread like that, I think.

And then there was the zaftig thread. I remember that one because I posted a pic of Mia Leave-Your-Wife-On-Christmas-Morning Tyler.

Good times.