And not only that, they used actors instead of the real Jack and Stan! What gives?!

At least they didn't do CGI. Ecccchhhh.

I finally saw it over the weekend. Enjoyed it as did the family. My complaints remain the Surfer switch and Pedro's casting.

It's kind of underperforming at the box office. I think maybe the cast was missing a draw.

When it's Superman, I think you go to see "who have they cast as the new Superman?"

When it's this property, I think you need the approach "Who can we get as the RDJ to start this off like Iron Man?"

Yeah, despite liking Pascal myself, I agree that there's a big lack of star power right now. I think Marvel got so enamored with its success in making C-listers like Ant-Man and GOTG into big hit films that they thought they didn't need a big draw like RDJ in the driver's seat. Maybe they thought they could make anything into a hit as long as it was tied to the MCU.

I also think that Marvel might have shot itself in the foot during the pandemic. I wonder if it trained a lot of people into feeling that unless it's an Avengers, Deadpool or Spider-Man movie, it's fine to wait for Disney+ to see a Marvel film. I also think the TV shows with movie characters weakened their brand as well. I just rewatched the last Captain America movie with my wife over the weekend and while it was entertaining, it felt like an extended episode of Falcon & the Winter Soldier with a higher budget rather than an "event" movie. It fumbled the opportunity to make people feel "I can't wait to see what Falcon is like in the role of Captain America".

I really enjoyed the Shang Chi and Shuri Black Panther movies, but it was foolhardy to think they could replace the likes of Robert Downey Jr's Iron Man, Chris Evans' Captain America, and Chadwick Boseman's Black Panther with those characters.

This was kind of new start, with the marketing suggesting this was Avengers-level "don't miss."

I think it was time to signal that with an RDJ level casting. But RDJ's are really not to be found much these days. The male leads are kind of hollowed out over the past 20 years.

So, let's stop beating around the bush. Obviously Jack Black should have been cast as Reed Richards.

I wonder if Chris Pine would have delivered. There's some pent up appreciation for him that's never really gotten played out.

I don't think he could have convinced as "the world's smartest man."

Maybe. Pedro pulled that part off -- he sounded intelligent in his acting choices. He did not have that authoritative, "slightly full of himself" newscaster voice that I've always imagined.

I think the STAR of the film was supposed to be Galactus.

There, you said it.

Finally, someone had the guts to say what we were all thinking.

Before seeing the movie, I, like you, had reservations regarding the Surfer and, to a lessor extent, Pedro as Reed.

Now, having seen the movie, I had no problem with either. I thought making the Surfer female gave Johnny something to to play off of, and I thought her story paralleled Sue's story nicely (i.e. what would you sacrifice for your child and/or your world?).

I also liked Pedro. I like the dignity he brought to the character. All too often Reed is portrayed too much as the absent minded genius or the genius on the verge of becoming the evil genius. I think they found a very nice balance.

Finally, I enjoyed how honestly and openly these Fantastic Four characters were. Many commentators like to say, "No one would do a press conference and admit everything like the FF do in this movie," but I say it was a really brave and honest moment in the movie. Further, I loved how the world came together in support of the FF, whom they trusted implicitly. If was a very refreshing moment of hero story telling, in my opinion.

Anyway, I enjoyed FF: First Steps -even more than this year's Superman- and find laughable when the press wants to call it "a bomb", when it was number one in the country for two weeks. Sure, it did not meet financial expectations, but it certainly met narrative expectations for me.

The concerning thing for me, if I'm Marvel, is that the critics and word-of-mouth for this was very good and this is a property there was some level of anticipation for Marvel Studios doing -- yet the week-to-week drops have been almost catastrophic. What do they do when even delivering a good movie isn't enough?

Marvel Studios has lost the plot. They should promote and evaluate First Steps as the launch of an exciting new Fantastic Four film series, not as MCU Movie 37 or wherever we are. Judged against its processors, which seriously harmed the brand, First Steps did as well as the 2005 version. But it has always been MCU 37 and Avengers Doomsday Part Zero from the getgo so for audiences it’s more homework.

I think it's time to give up on the FF property. It must not have quite the necessary amount of raw appeal to civilians.

They hot shot too much stuff.
Tony Stark is dead.
Steve Rogers is lost in time.
Red Skull is dead.
Black Widow is dead.
Vision is dead.
Thanos is dead.
Wolverine is dead, although not their fault.
Galactus and Silver Surfer are somewhere.
Odin is dead.

I am sure there is more, but my memory sucks.
Script writers need to learn JB’s illusion of change, and stop eliminating characters.

This was presumably Marvel Studio's best shot at FF after so many failed attempts, and only 21 million people in the United States bothered to see it. If there's any such thing as accountability left in this country, expect ritual suicides.at The Mouse.

Given the Incredibles success, what would you attribute the struggles of FF to?

One was a cartoon,and one was not.
Maybe it's as simple as that.

The Incredibles stole their thunder. I see this as akin to how every other sci-fi movie stole John Carter of Mars' thunder.

Also, non comic book fans are unsatisfied with superhero movies and shows. The big name characters have been done and the second tier characters have not landed (no pun intended). Covid and streaming also oversaturated the market creating a lack of interest in this stuff for non comic book fans.

The MCU is doing the "illusion of change" on a grand scale. In true comic book fashion, the whole MCU will get rebooted in the Secret Wars films.